Month: August 2025

Guess I can see why it got that name. Time to bring my LLM-AI / ChatGPT experiment to a close.

Having previously only used ChatGPT as an occasional alternative to Google, especially with Google itself having slapped its own AI between us and its search results, I took it seriously as an “assistant” for a month or maybe two.

Never been convinced, still not, that there is anything remotely intelligent about so-called AI, it is still nevertheless useful to be able to process masses of recorded knowledge very quickly. After a few trials recorded earlier where I used it to summarise 25 years of my own writing back to me and give me analysis of it at the same time – which had some reassurance value – I formed the idea it could maybe help me transform my blog content into a proper “graph” version of a Zettelkasten – like eg Obsidian.

There are a few open-source GitHub codes that claim to process WordPress XML exports into Obsidian MarkDown objects and wikilinks. Both are 100% deterministic and the mappings logically tractable, even with 25 evolving years of WordPress internal addressing formats. All the GitHub or PlugIn efforts I tried were partial, the originators clearly only ever had specific limited purposes in mind.

Whether I tried starting from existing partial code, or with a blank slate and a semi-formal statement of my mapping needs and scope, ChatGPT always “worked” – in the sense it always delivered functional output. But the mappings were only ever partially as intended and sometimes even destructive of existing knowledge content, quite dumb in fact. Every time we got one kind of objects and links sorted, it simply appeared to guess what tweaks to make to the code to pick-up what had been missed previously but broke what had previously worked. For a while it seemed like maybe trial and error might be a workable strategy to getting to 95%+ success. But after a while I realised it wasn’t working. It was always one or two steps forward, two or three steps back. It was only ever as good as a piece of “similar vibe” code it could find out there, each guess was independent of learnings from previous guesses, so it was a random walk across the problem domain rather than anything additive. What I really needed was a programmer or my own programming skills. I left a few hooks out there in GitHubland, but ChatGPT isn’t it. It was never going to do better than any piece of existing code it found in its historical data banks.

I got two or three 50%+ outputs – which looked promising from 40,000 feet in terms of numbers of objects and linking density. I used one as a graphic for one of my slides a the ISSS2025 Birmingham conference, and here are a selection from its best efforts since:

Never good enough to make the exercise worth the next step in effort, to add ontological organisation and navigation links to the whole epistemic “semantic” web. Ho hum. Still be worthwhile if any actual programmer is interested. I’d pay for a solution.

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PS – the addictive “agreeable” nature of the chatbot – even in text, not simulated voice – is worth experiencing in order to understand its limitations and the risks of being fooled into thinking “it can be your friend” – it can’t.

Can’t see me actually using any AI chatbot as a creative assistant. Almost exactly two months since I did any productive writing. Next.

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There have been many follow-ups to the ISSS2025 Conference in Birmingham. One-to-one emails, text & telephone or LinkedIn exchanges, some formal publisher / institutional contacts, many more informal and personal, some specifically part of the writing project(s), most more generally around our Systems Thinking topics.

One particular set of FB-Messenger voice-message “groups” was initiated by Chris Chase – mainly amongst people relatively new to ISSS or Systems specifically as-a-discipline, who had met each other for the first time in Birmingham. Especially those who – one way or another – saw “Eastern” (or other ancient, NB in “scare quotes”) thinking and practice as an important addition to the systems “Sciences”. It initially started as an attempt to replicate the ISSS “Round Table” in-person, short, shared, non-critical, listening experience in an asynchronous technology environment, but these have morphed through multiple FB-Messenger channels to discussion on establishing “flow” in on-line platform discourse – with multi-modal, voice, text and communication media content. Feeling our way.

What’s missing from these threads so far are any of the experienced ISSS (or any federated IFSR organisations) leadership participants. Learning experience for those actually participating, starting with the knowledge limitations of new participants, but in danger of being silos not “joined-up” communication-wise to our wider ecosystem.

So this post is me “breaking out” from one to the other. Let’s start with some observations:

Firstly, personally, the idea of joined-up-thinking being “an ecosystem for systems thinking, incorporating multiple world-views” pretty much sums up my research and writing agenda. The idea that this be dynamic and evolving, and that our motivation is a response to our 21st century “polycrisis” – poly-crises (plural) plus meta-crisis (underlying these) – being a given?

Secondly, the multi-view system idea turned out to be quite a common agenda at the conference (see this previous post) and, more specifically, a platform for this being Leah Bogen‘s explicit research agenda.

Thirdly, when it comes to multi-modal channels and platforms, real-time and asynchronous voice can only be a part of a greater kaleidoscope. Personal preferences for creating and communicating in voice over text and other documents/files, is ultimately a personal style preference, and a mixture – Requisite Diversity – is inevitable and essential. However an important difference is in the receiver / consumer value and effort. You cannot skim over a previous collection of voice messages by eye to recap where dialogue has got to in terms of (say) shared-understandings, nor can you cross-link internally between contributions, without voice-to-text transformation also in the pipeline.

Fourthly, when it comes to multiple world-views or perspectives, the East-West “dichotomy” has been a growing part of ISSS agendas, epitomised by (outgoing president) Gary Smith adopting the Lao Tzu catchphrase “the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao” and the fact that more contributors to the 2025 conference – myself included – brought “Eastern” content with them – in plenary sessions as well as topic-specific streams.

So to bring these together, cross-link the silos, join the dots, confluence the flows … choose your preferred fluid dynamic metaphor … I want to address issues under just two of the topics touched upon:

The Channel(s) / Platform(s)

Whilst we’ve been playing (experimenting) with FB-Messenger group voice-channels, most of the professional systems world is increasingly using LinkedIn and associated blogs, and ISSS itself has only recently created a “Wiki” space as promoted by incoming president Yiannis Laouris.

ISSS itself, up to the 2024 Conference in DC anyway, in capturing its “Systems Body of Knowledge” as an on-line resource, used the technical services of (amongst others) Daniel Friedman for shared repositories (like Coda say) and a collaboration platform in Discord. It would be a shame to overlook these efforts. Daniel’s work with Discord is particularly impressive in the AII (Active Inference Institute) environment. (The importance of “AI” as Active Inference – as opposed to Artificial Intelligence – can only grow as the current AI-Hype bubble bursts – but I possibly digress prematurely.)

The point here is that, technology-wise the idea of multi-channel, multi-modal, real-time & asynchronous, open, shared communication & collaboration platform(s) is already being solved and implemented out there, by people already in our Systems community. (And many of us are participants in such channels in other contexts too.)

The East-West Aspect

This has become both popular and contentious at the same time.

The contrasts and connections between so-called East and West worldviews have been evident throughout the 4000+ years history of philosophy and natural philosophy (science) since the pre-Socratics right thought all our “footnotes to Plato” via Islamic scholars & the enlightenment to modernism, post-modernism and beyond.

Popularity in “the West” was driven by the 1950’s Beats and 1960’s Hippy “countercultures” which, very similar to our 21st century response to the “polycrisis” (see above) was a reaction to the hopelessness felt in the face of the “military-industrial-complex”. There are many parallels, and the resurgence of Eastern mindful practice(s) on an almost industrial scale is one of them.

We need to be careful what we think we mean when we invoke the East-West distinction and beware artificial dichotomies that might divide or distort our efforts at the real-world level. (My own 2025 presentation majored on dichotomies and #GoodFences in this context.)

Current views out there vary between extremes.

“As a Westerner, I’ve worked with many people in the Eastern and other cultures and they don’t really espouse different, less-scientific world-views. In fact it’s an insulting hangover of Western (North-Atlantic) colonialism to suggest otherwise.“

“I’m from the Far East and have studied this question, and the difference is not really such a big deal for us, more implicitly embodied in our everyday experience.“

The reality intended by those of us that espouse an East-West balance is much more nuanced than either and East-West, as used here, is just figurative short-hand for that complex subtlety. The Westerners who first popularised that wave of Eastern thought and practice in the West (the North Atlantic) from the 1950’s to the 1970’s were Alan Watts and Robert Pirsig, but their agendas were quite different.

Suffice to say, one was very much about promoting mindful religious practice, the other about integrated systems thinking. Both were about dynamic process integration. At the conference one important speaker who exhibited the necessary balance and subtlety in both expression and action on this axis was our host Rachel Lilley but she is not alone. Shared understanding is possible.

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[Note: this post is getting a bit silly. I’m not publishing many (any) new posts not-related to my current writing project(s), and the musical interludes (plural) aren’t really part of that, so I’m basically appending updates at the bottom of this posts for now, so I don’t lose the notes.]

Saw PiL (Public Image Limited) at the newly refurbished Boiler Room in Newcastle back at the end of May. Didn’t blog any review, but was left intrigued that I didn’t catch who the excellent support band were.

Also saw PiL a couple of days ago, 1st August in Holmfirth, at the Picturedrome. Support this time were The Gulps, also excellent. Their name reminded me I’d seen that they were supporting PiL elsewhere on this tour too and they were the only name that searches threw up when looking for the support act, but it wasn’t them. I discover now, thanks to a comment at SetListFM, the Newcastle support were The Jacques.

The reason to go to the Holmfirth gig was the venue. Never been to either Holmfirth or the famous Picturedrome before. Brilliant. No time for any reviews today. John as ever. John used to dedicate Death Disco to his mother, but having lost Nora and Rambo since the last tour, all the more poignant. Scott’s bass driving their characteristic sound. New boy Mark Roberts slotting in seamlessly for Bruce on a very similar acoustic and electronic drum set-up. Something’s changed in Lu’s sound can’t quite put my finger on – not as “fat” on classics like Public Image and Open Up? (*)

Anyway just the one more big gig this season. QOTSA at the Don Valley Bowl, Sheffield 28th August. Oh, and then Divine Comedy later at York Barbican in October. (**)

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Post Note (*) – as is to prove my point, atmospheric, trancey opening to Open-Up (at Chelmsford) – with the riff introduced by Lu stepping-up. Just too thin? Still a couple of AC30 sized amps, but with some new devices clamped to the front rather than standard mic’s simply mounted in front. Lost the head-banging over-driven edginess teetering on the edge of feedback, with Public Image as well as Open Up.

Post Note (**) – managed to fit in another musical event – the Conjuring (was Northern Lights) festival at Pealie’s Barn nr Northallerton on the Saturday last weekend 16th August. Glad I went. Interesting location, housing & run by a kinda hippy craft collective in converted old farm buildings. All lovely people, including promoter Jack (of “Dirt” fame). 7 or 8 bands in turn on the one stage. Only downside of the physical arrangement being the high stage at the high-end of the sloping barn-yard, reduced visibility of the acts the further away you got. Better if the stage could be / have been at the other end, raked more like an old-fashioned theatre? As it was I mostly found myself a perch close to the mixing desk at the side of the stage. Anyway the bands – pretty eclectic mix, all self-created “garage rock” but with a strong trancey / psychedelic theme of riffs over long loopy grooves. Apart from the headliners, my reason to be there (below), the pick were “DaDaXL” – a pick-up 3-piece thrown together for the fest – great musicians all, channelling Hawkwind through their 3 x 15 minute epics, and “Dry Retch” a fun 4-piece trading on the Aussie accent of their lead vocal, an Angus Young parody on the heavy lead guitar, an “F1-Elevens” low-slung bassist, and a drummer playing his first gig with them. Silly, but accomplished, entertaining fun. Mentions to “Amon Acid” (band) and “Bloodjoy” (collective project) maintaining the “psych” continuity. Which brings us to the headliners. Joe and Jordan Bell of Avalanche Party for a first gig with “Primitive” their new 7-piece project(?). The sound and aesthetic were all spot on – see heavy trancey / psychy / loopy / grooves – with Joe’s bass and the new drummer synching like they’ve always been together. Slight confusion over the rest in terms of longer term roles as a band or as a flexible early-days-project-in-progress? Sounded great, but Jordan very much the main vocals over a new vocalist, on guitar riffs over a new guitarist, electric-piano, synth and laptop over a new looper and a new electric-pianist / saxophonist? Loved his piano intro to their first number, put me in mind of The Who’s “Love Reign O’er Me” from Quadrophenia. Promising and already a great sound.

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Post Note – 29 Aug 2025 – Dear Diary – so, I did see QOTSA at the “Rock’n’Roll Circus” event at the Don Valley Bowl in Sheffield last night.

It really will have to be my last “festival” gig. My hips no longer have the stamina for standing a half / whole day in a field. I paid for the “VIP” experience with an area of picnic seating and tented cover, so I could take the weight off my pegs between sets, but the timings meant it was raining heavily when the seating was free, and the covered areas (other than the main “big top”) were already full. The fuller the event got as the headlines approached, the more I could only stand. Did I have any pain-killers with me? Nope.

Also “moshing” with such a large dense crowd requires standing one’s ground unless you’re up for joining in. Usually I pin myself against the main stage front barrier, so it all happens behind you, and you have the barrier for support. But if you actually care about hearing the vocals and instrumentation above the drums and bass through the sub-stage speakers, as you must do with someone as intelligent and intelligible a communicator as Josh Homme … I was back in the thick of it, close and central enough to still see whilst hearing a balanced sound. Josh cares too, about putting on a professional show for their fans. Even from the first time I saw them in Perth WA, Josh gets quite emotional talking with his audience and last night was no different. They had in fact played Sheffield before and this was the last of 2 nights at the end of the current European tour. Josh made a thing of his relationship with the Arctic Monkeys, and I recall that world tour back in 2005-ish they had the Futureheads – a Sunderland band – on that tour with them. Coincidentally, also the last night of a long tour.

His communication skills were called-upon about 10 mins before the scheduled end of their set as 10:45pm. The moshing had got out of had once or twice, my hips screaming with pain, and with people on the floor several times relying on mates to drag them up and out of harms way. The hi-vizes interrupted Josh, to ask the audience to give them space to deal with a casualty, and he has them in the palm of his hand, assuring them / us the show will go on, but please take care of each other and allow the professionals to help us have a good time. He should go into politics – and indeed he did crack a joke earlier about running for mayor of Sheffield. Many a true word in jest. Anyway, with everything calmed-down on pause, I retreated further back and sideways towards the exit – and found a bench seat just outside, with a view back into the stage. There were blue-lights, but so far as I can see, no newsworthy casualty reports this morning, so hopefully whoever they were, were OK?

Grumpy old-man mode – two pet hates at these events. As ever, once you are back in the crowd, is the curse of people (not) watching the gig through mobile phones over their heads. It’s hard enough to see. And two, stage lighting is designed for dramatic back-lighting for those filming for hi-brilliance stage-side screens, blinding and distracting the audience, to make boot-leg filming harder. Either way NOT designed so the audience can actually see the band perform. Jeez – Gimme a break. Fortunately, as I said, Josh cares and the QOTSA lighting and whole production was excellent – stunning – again, as I remarked at the Stockton Globe gig.

More general old-man mode – Talking to a guy beside me, younger than our two boys, we were comparing notes on times we’ve seen them (6:1 to me) and which songs from which albums (4:2 to him) we expected on the set-list. QOTSA were second generation rock-and-roll for me, got into them because one or other son was into them – listening to Songs for the Deaf and Lullabies to Paralyze on my daily / weekly commutes (2003~2006). To my surprise, I only recognised – well enough to name and join in the anthemic choruses – about 4 numbers on the night. Guy in front noting down every item on the set-list on his phone, seemed to recognise them all, or was he using an app? Significantly – it was a generally younger audience, wearing a wide range of different vintage QOTSA T-shirts that seemed to know and join in with almost every number. Impressive.

On the day, also saw:

Circa Waves – not heard of them before – yet a pretty large following for their more poppy-rock, with a clean-cut engaging front man.

Jehnny Beth – ditto not heard before – much dirtier and heavier sound with Jehnny as another audience-engaging front act. Her band, her songs I believe. Worth experiencing.

Viagra Boys – silly but fun, heavy again but with hypnotic synth beats. Stalwarts of the circuit, 90% of the audience seemed to know every word and beat, though I hadn’t actually seen them before.

And a couple more, but. Last time for this kind of festival gig for me? Great to see Josh one (last) time again since his health scare hiatus. He was on fine form and looked good as ever if not obviously aged. Long may you run. We’re all getting old together, even the younger generation(s).

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[More grumpy old-man – nightmare late drive home, despite beating most of the crowd to the car park (see above) – several M1, A1M and A19 road closures on the same night – the M1 works took us off the motorway at the M62 junction – heading off to Manchester(!) looking for back roads into and thru Leeds but with no obvious direction signs. The A19 diversion I avoided by staying further north on the A1M – I’d noticed the signs on the way down and experienced it more than once before between Thirsk and Osmotherly. BUT – the A1M closure – well pre-sign-posted in terms of junction numbers turned-out to be after Scotch Corner but before my A66(M) junction to Darlington. Fortunately this was well signposted through Dalton and Hurworth, but unfortunately designed for drivers wanting to rejoin A1M North after Darlington rather than the the A66 into Teesside that I was looking for. A while before I recognised the right roads home. Lesson – worth setting-up the sat-nav even for journeys home on would-be familiar routes.]

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Just the one more pre-planned gig this year, other than a few local bands I’d like to support. Divine Comedy at York Barbican in October, the two of us in a sit-down theatre setting.

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