Dave Pollard having an interesting dialogue with himself.
When you find the answer Dave, let me know, count me in.
Ob-Platte or the next best thing ?
The whole world in a grain of salt.
Where to start ?
You maybe don’t need me to point out
that these are anagrams of each other?
Table-Top
Battle-Op
Ob-Platte
Potel-Bat
Bel-Patto
Plato-Bet
But what are they ? It might help if you knew that they are the title of Chapter 8 of Douglas Hofstadter’s book “Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies” (Computer models of the fundamentals of thought.) The book is a collection of papers in collaboration with Daniel Defays, David Chalmers, Robert French, Melanie Mitchell and Gary McGraw with prologues by Douglas Hofstadter, all compiled in the mid-nineties, 15 years after his GEB (Gödel Esher Bach). [And post-note, amazing fact, it was the first book ever to be ordered on Amazon!]
If I was to sum up the book / collection I’d say that whilst it seems at first to be a study of thought processes – strategies to find answers to problems – it is really an analysis of “the concept of concept”, which proceeds through abstractions, analogy and “slipping”. At a simple level an analogy has some self-evident or metaphorical sameness to an original subject. But, how self-evident or more-subtly-creative that analogy is, turns out to be a matter of looking for that sameness at different levels of abstraction – lateral thinking, hunting for the “essence” – the Platonic form. But in typical Hofstadter style, the whole book is actually one long number, letter, word game. So much so that if you don’t share his enthusiasm for searching for patterns in near-cyclical sequences (of numbers, letters, words, etc … fonts even) the near-repetition is a long slog.
The whole book is a million
different ways of expressingA:B :: X:Y
(As is to B as X is to Y)“Get a life” you might think.
Chapter 8 is worth the slog.
At the simplest level A is to B, as B is to C, as C is to D, etc … is the definition of a series. Given a starting situation (the known history of the series so far) find the next term, given what you can infer about the “is to” relationship. The point is the “best” next may not be an obvious value, but involves a sense of “elegance” or “creativity”. The archetypal example for me (my paraphrase) …
What is the next number in the series 0, 1, 2, … ?
Obviously it’s 3, right ?
Well no. How about 720! (*1)
(You’re missing that the shared relation
between A and B, is [n(!n)]
ie the series is 0, 1!, 2!!, 3!!!, 4!!!!, etc …)Think about it.
If someone actually asked you the question “What is the next number in the series 0, 1, 2, … ?” surely the very first thing you would know for sure would be, well presumably, since you’re not a two-year old, the answer you’re looking for is not 3 or you wouldn’t have asked me, right ?
And in fact your first response would probably be that rhetorical question – to confirm the premise, to check you hadn’t misheard.
Chapter 8 takes this by analogy – given the history of the world up to this point – what should I do next. Shall I have a donut for breakfast? or what decision / action should my government take next in the current situation? It’s about decision-making strategies. Occam (or Buridan’s Ass) might lead you to say the best answer is the obvious one (the 3, or either bale of hay will do), but the point is the obvious answer is not the only possibility, nor necessarily the best in the overall analysis.
Looking at the strategies for finding the more creative “better” answers what is most striking is that the problem domain may appear closed and bounded as in the Tabletop analogy – all explicit knowledge and choices are laid out in front of you on the table – the “best next thing” reasoning involves thinking which is abstracted above it and slipped more broadly sideways (outside the explicit problem domain).
[Tabletop game described further here.]
Choosing your grain of salt involves its relationships to the whole world of possibilities; evaluating / filtering the most significant relations is the tricky, creative bit.
When I say “do this” and touch my nose – you already knows (by analogy) that I mean touch your own nose, not mine. “This” is the same by analogy. The Tabletop process simply extends this to – if I touch this object from my perspective of the table in front of us which should you touch next from yours. In all but the most trivial tit-for-tat cases (*2) the choice involves analogies – patterns of related essence – well beyond what actually exists on the tabletop – the apparent theatre of operations.
Q. What is the Ob of Nebraska ? A. The Platte. Because the Ob is to Siberia (a large river flowing across its desolate wastes) as the Platte is to Nebraska. If that really was published in 1890 by Belpatto then the whole anagram sequence is truly spooky. Meta-fascinating.
=====
[Post Note (*1) In fact, that fourth term or the next term after the 720, or ANY subsequent term can be almost anything you choose. Scientifically, there are an infinity of hypotheses to fit any given set of data so far, all that is required is creativity and ingenuity. There’s a whole debate to be had – a la Occam’s Razor – if we were talking about truth and beauty in science, which we’re not particularly, but the best or most elegant solution isn’t necessarily the simplest or most obvious. See Sabine Hossenfelder “Lost in Math”.]
[Post Note (*2) for a treatment of “tit-for-tat” and the infinite possibility of other strategies in a real world of incomplete trust, imperfect information and levels of ironic intent, see this later post on Basic Evolutionary Game Theory and the truly excellent Evolution of Trust Simulator created by Nicky Case based on Axelrod’s 1984 work.]
Todd Snider
Almost a week overdue this post, since last Friday I travelled early Saturday to a conference and been just too busy and stressed to blog (or even read any private e-mail). Anyway, mentioned Tommy Womack and Will Kimbrough before and several people knowing I was a fan of Tommy suggested I should see another ex-cohort Todd Snider.
Friday he was at the Huntsville Crossroads, doing a solo acoustic set, a little too brief, in front of strangely seated audience. Great stuff, undeniably Dylanesque, witty auto-biographical songs and delivery full of character. Picked-up a CD and will get to know his songs and look out for him again. A gem.
(Being away, I’ve missed Dave Anderson’s set being videoed at The Sports Page last Monday too.)
[Update – listened to Todd’s CD’s “East Nashville Skyline” (2004) and “The Devil You Know” (2006) – and can confirm that the country-rock arrangements do also evoke “the new Tom Petty” comparisons.
Conservative Christian, Right-Wing Republican,
Straight, White, American Males
… haters of …
Tree-huggin, Peace-lovin, Pot-smokin, Porn-watchin,
Lazy-ass hippies like me.
Diamonds and dogs, boys and girls,
living together in two separate worlds.]
[Post Note: Saw Todd Snider again in Austin. Still regularly have his CD’s on in the car!]
Mobile Distributed Comms Hubs
This is something I recall Cringley mentioning years ago. As electronic / computing content of cars (and motor vehicles generally, buses in this case) increases and whilst cars are globally distributed and mobile, it becomes sensible to think of vehicles as the “hubs” of an increasingly peer-to-peer global comms network.
More Health & Safety Lameness
Lame managers (of a University College) using HSE excuse to limit traditional act.
Meaninglessness at Work
Struck in this story initially by the reference to nursing in contrast to health-care-management. Sometimes people are robbed of any intrinsic “job satisfaction” by their management systems. This medical example is the Dr James Willis “Friends in Low Places” agenda. Engagement with the task skills and their primary objectives is a key factor as Richard Sennett’s “The Craftsman” would suggest in the news story. Of course for some jobs such aspects may be hard to find or value, so perhaps not everyone should expect to find that kind of happiness in their work, but I’m not so sure.
Chris Wilson’s new book “Healing The Unhappy Caveman” would suggest that evolving human minds should not expect to find happiness in daily life anyway. He may be right, but again I’m not so sure after the intro and one chapter so far. I think the key we will find is in understanding where that satisfaction arises, and why it is valuable to pursue it the right way. I shall read on and report back.
Perhaps I’m the eternal optimist as one commenter on the news story suggests.
Fascinating
Cooling effect of Moon’s shadow on the earth’s atmosphere during an eclipse, moving across the earth’s surface at supersonic speeds, may be the source of very-low-frequency “infrasound” (ie inaudible to humans) shock-front that tips off some birds and animals to the approaching eclipse.
Wise Old Fish
Excellent edition of “In Our Time” today, on the subject of the ancient library at Nineveh. Another example of the “enthusiastic scholar” in Karen Radner, but all good contributions.
As well as the general Assyrian / Babylonian cultural history, including Gilgamesh and the even older myth of the Great Flood, it was fascinating to hear the myth of the fish (long-lived human-sized Tigris carp) as wise advisers to the even-longer-lived and disease-free humans in the times before the flood.
After the flood, all had changed for humankind. So many allusions. A fall from grace. Babel-fish, and so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the … Douglas Adams references. [And how could I forget the “Salmon of Wisdom / Knowledge” and DNA’s “Salmon of Doubt” – Comment from Dermot below.] Also another specific interest for me in Nineveh / Carchemish / Leonard Woolley and T E Lawrence. Libraries destroyed by fire; Nineveh, Alexandria, “Name of the Rose”, oh, and Guisborough my original home town. Must add links to all those referenced allusions …
[Post Note : The recycling of mythology in cultural undestanding of real knowledge is fundamental to the defining moment of “Arrive Without Travelling“.]
[Post Note : Conversation with DMB on MoQ.Discuss – The programme also mentions that ironically, if the library at Nineveh had not been torched, then future archeologists may never have found the Gilgamesh / flood tablets. Here’s a thought; how many of us would have known of the Afgan Buddha’s if they had NOT been parttially destroyed by the Taleban; how many US citizens would have known that Bablyon was the cradle of their civilized world if they had not been plundered in tthe course of their “war on whatever”. Perhaps myth has more lasting value than the contents of libraries and museums, however outrageous their deliberate destruction ? Perhaps they benefit from being converted back into myth ocasionally.]
Milestone Spam Case
Interesting that this case was successful. If MySpace can be protected by the law what about every other social network or e-mail service. My WordPress Blog gets 100’s a day, 1000’s a month, and my GMail e-mail accounts get 1000 and 3000 apiece each month.
The (free) spam filters are 99% effective, but it’s a criminal drain on resources. I really believe in the idea of charging for all e-mails, posts and comments – just a very small marginal cost would raise significant money for some worthwhile cause, but would price the malicious timewasters and freeloaders out of business
Arrive Without Travelling
“Arrive Without Travelling” (AWT) is the first in a series of documentary films by Anthony McWatt about the work of Robert M Pirsig. Ant is to be congratulated on achieving his debut film-making milestone, the culmination of his own determined journey down a long and winding road, paved with intentions of many kinds.
[Post Note: The 2nd part “On The Road with Robert Pirsig” (OTR) is since published and reviewed here. OTR is probably most interesting to the public as a documentary of Pirsig and his Metaphysics of Quality. AWT is mainly of special interest as a record of proceedings and discussions around the 2005 Liverpool conference … here, below.]
The major content of AWT was filmed at and around the 2005 Liverpool Conference, about which I reported at the time. If it achieves nothing else, the film nails any lingering suggestion that Bob’s relationship with his “fans” is anything remotely close to being a celebrity guru with his acolytes. And that’s not just in the relaxed participation and conversation recorded, but also in the fact that Bob makes it abundantly clear that despite his own creation of the rhetoric represented by his two books (ZMM & Lila), the philosophical ideas originated with “his mentor” F S C Northrop, and no-one, not even Bob can teach or define the dynamic quality at the core of that Metaphysics of Quality. That requires enlightened and enlightening participation in real life. “Ideas have their own evolution.” as Bob says.
As well as a large part of the papers presented and a number of interviews with Bob and the participants, perhaps the most important content is that informal footage and recording of discussion and free conversation, with the shy and reclusive Bob as simply one of the participants, relaxed amongst friends. Participation again is the key component. The publication as a film allows more more people to participate, albeit once removed from the original.
A few caveats about this review, in the interests of balance, before I proceed. Firstly, as a participant at the conference myself, I am an interested party, but I have to say that I find my own recorded contribution almost excruciating to watch, even edited down by about one third. Secondly as a matter of taste, the use of the psychedelic Beatles clips as links and overlays, has obvious relevance to the Liverpool location and the hippy age in which much of the thesis was developed, but I’m not entirely sure the effect will prove net positive. Thirdly, it was a surprise to find that this first in a series of documentary films, is in fact a full 100 minutes feature length, with extended recordings of the conference proceedings. As a record of the event and contributions, it is invaluable, but time will tell if the format can attract and educate new interest in the subject matter.
Extracts from the talks by Mati Palm-Leis, and Khoo Hock Aun are included, and Gavin Gee-Clough’s paper is included almost in full. [Conference Papers]
The highlight of the film, as it was at the conference, is David Buchanan’s paper “Fun With Blasphemy”, and Bob’s emotional reaction to it. Although David’s paper is published, it would still feel like a spoiler to divulge the punchline here. As I reported at the time, we were all fortunate that Dave’s delivery was recorded for posterity, and here is the proof, presented in full. Dave analyses perennial myths across many cultures, drawing on the work of Joseph Campbell, settles on the myth of Orpheus, and speculates on a possible Orphic screenplay and players to exemplify the MoQ messages, in contrast to earlier proposals to film narrative’s of the ZMM or Lila stories. The idea is genius in itself, reinforced by the specific Liverpool connection in his choice of creative muse. Go watch.
What moved Bob to label Dave as “cool” – in acknowledgement of a “cool” thread in the paper – was that Dave had struck upon something central to Pirsig’s own story. Enlightenment; Christ you know it ain’t easy, and most readers will know that Pirsig went through the occupational hazard of a serious mental breakdown en-route to creating his own enlightened work. [Timeline 1961] It transpires that Bob saw Cocteau’s film “Orpheus” during his descent into madness, just before he left Bozeman and moved to Chicago (featured coincidentally as locations in “Orpheus”) where he suffered his breakdown. In Bob’s emotional words “I entered that film and never really came out.” Dave had of course selected the Orphic myth, of entering an otherworld and returning enlightened for the very reason that it mirrored Pirsig’s own life journey. But little did we know [*].
As Dave says, it’s “the coolest thing that ever happened me.”
Electric moments of dynamic quality captured on film.
Get a copy from www.robertpirsig.org and enlighten yourself.
[*][Post Note – Though the parallel between Bob’s personal journey of enlightenment and the Orphic myth, and Dave’s “Mythos” agenda are well known, you would need to be a close reader of MoQ.Discuss back in 1999 to note that Bob had mentioned the Cocteau film before.
http://www.mail-archive.com/moq_discuss@moq.org/msg00786.html
But, little did we know how significant to Bob.]